N'fa Jones - interview

MW: Thanks once again for agreeing to this interview. I want to start even earlier than 1200 Techniques – would it be false of me to assume that You were all at the very beginning of Australian hip-hop scene, in Melbourne? How do You remember those beginnings?

NFJ: I personally grew up in Perth, so I can’t really say that. I was a little kid, and there wasn’t a lot of hip-hop around. There were a couple of guys, who were into graffiti and breakdancing, because they’ve seen it on TV. My first contact with hip-hop was when I was in a record store in Fremantle with my brother… We grew up listening to jazz, blues, reggae, Michael Jackson… And then we started seeing hip-hop. LL Cool J, Rakim, KRS-One – all these artists coming up. Also the originators – Sugarhill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight”, Grandmaster Flash, Melle Mel… When I was about 9, I started getting into rapping, my brother was also into it. There was a place in Fremantle called The Edge. People would hang out there, with skateboards, breakdancing, graffiti etc. – just being delinquent teenagers. We used to get there and perform – my brother Kabba and I. It was around 1988-1989. Hip-hop was around me, but it wasn’t really that popular then. 

Peril - Jason Foretti - grew up in Melbourne, he started b-boying when he was 12, in… 1982-1983. I would say Peril was at the beginning of this graffiti and breakdancing movement. He was “the famous kid” among DJ’s and producers. From age 12 he was fully involved in the scene, had fully developed techniques in graffiti and was a part of many crews. He had their names in his tags… Him and his brother Simon – Kemstar - were into it. This was hip-hop in Melbourne in the 80’s, it was all about graffiti and breakdancing.

Peril loved music, he started to buy records and make his own tapes, producing his own beats, DJ’ing–  just embracing the culture, every part of it! It was at the time, when people around the world embraced hip-hop and became the children of it. 

MW: How did You connect with Peril and created 1200 Techniques?

NFJ: Peril was a member of couple of crews, couple of musical projects, one of them – called Big Pacific – nearly got signed. It would have been the first signed Australian hip-hop act, but it fell through unfortunately. There were other groups, like Sound Unlimited Posse from Sydney (the actual first Aussie hip-hop crew with a record deal), Def Wish Cast – I used to see them live and see their videos. When I was 12-13, I used to rap at the events, while they were performing. 

I didn’t know who Peril was yet. At 17, when I finished high school, I moved to Melbourne. There was a venue called Evelyn, I’d go there, because I could get a few free beers, meet some people and rap. I loved rapping, I used to be in a freestyle band, I even have already recorded an album with my bros by the time I was 17, some tripped out world music hip-hop. But it never got released. Peril heard about us – me and my brother Kabba– and we met him in Evelyn. He was always FRESH, tracksuit and a gold chain on. Nothing changed, even now he dress fresh. He was a cool dude. Even if he was 9 years older than me, we vibed and formed a connection. I was used to being around people older than me, my brother is 6 years older, so it wasn't a problem for me. We started hanging out, he gave us some beats. Those beats were  little “too” hip-hop for me, I was more into world music and “other” sounding stuff then. I didn’t want to do what was done in New York or L.A. at that time, I wanted to create my own thing,  make it more “African”. A couple of his tracks started to get to me, I started rapping on them, sending my ideas to him, finally we recorded something on a 4-track… Or was it 8-track?

 

From there it was: “Hey, we should go to my mate Danny’s studio and record it properly. We started laying tracks down bit by bit, Peril and my brother would give me suggestions. We then started gigging a little, Peril was a DJ, and we rapped on some famous breaks, but also our own material. Later we started to get a little bit of notoriety, but then my brother wanted to go back to England… I was faced with a choice – keep working like my brother, or do this project which I started to enjoy. it was a very stressful and difficult situation. In the end my brother went back to London, I stayed. I’ve written the song called “Karma” while doing some chores in the house, also came up with the melody. We recorded a basic version with Peril. I’ve freestyled first 8-10 bars  - the same first bars of “Karma”. We sat on it for a while, while we were playing shows, and people were getting more interested…. Peril’s brother – also a b-boy and graffiti artist – got involved too. He was always playing the guitar, he was more into rock and blues and psychedelic music. 

 

MW: That’s also what I wanted to ask about – there are many different music influences and genres on 1200 Techniques’ songs. Like rock, funk, electro… “Karma” for example has this kickass guitar solo at the end. Was that Your vision from the beginning? “Let’s make something different than straight up, oldschool, boom bap record”?

 

NFJ: Once I understood that Peril was about music and different styles connected to hip-hop – that was something that made me wanna do it. I never wanted to be straight boom bap rapper. I didn’t wanna copy, I wanted to create something. That was Peril’s vision as well. 

 

 

Actually,  “Hard as Hell” was the first track with Kemstar. My brother - who was still in Australia at that time - was the main instigator of “Hard as Hell”. He was into this hardcore metal/rock sound, bands like Public Enemy, and he convinced Peril, who made nice and bouncy beats, to add some “hard” elements to it. Peril added this killer beat.  I don’t remember if it was Kem’s guitar chords or Kabba’s. It was a very hard rock-hip-hop hybrid. My brother penned most of the lyrics on the track, I wrote my verse and helped a bit with the chorus. That was the changing point – we went from having a few cool, bouncy tracks to having a kickass, thundering song that was still hip-hop to us. 

 

We started to play more with Kem, getting him involved more and more. We would make him play more funky stuff. On “Karma”, which is based on “Hot Chocolate” sample, with a cool, laidback vibe – Kem added nice touch with his guitar. It just needed that beautiful solo. Kem understands hip-hop well!

It was all organic, it wasn’t planned beforehand that we create a band with a specific goal - we were just guys hanging out, who happened to have this odd interests and we all had this connection through music. The second album worked as well, because we were still those guys. And then we disbanded, because that energy, that period, moment just wasn’t there anymore. 

MW: The unity was gone?

NFJ: Not exactly. Maybe if we did the third album right away, it would’ve kept rolling in this formation, but… lot of life things happened, that prevented us from going back and working on the project. All kinds of stuff, like me being abroad for example. The period of the first and second album – what they did, what they created sonically, was - I believe - really important for the Australian music movement. We didn’t know that, but we kinda felt like we were ahead. We got dissed for having live band, like “It’s not hip-hop! Use the records!” We’re making music, dude! Guitar, percussion is music! If I want to sing on a track, it’s not because I wanna be a pop singer, it’s because for me the blues and soul influence of it fits. It’s feeling, bro, it’s not thought-out. You guys are overthinking every 16 bars, we’re just feeling. That’s what music should be. But once it stops feeling right, it becomes difficult to do. Music needs to feel good. 

MW: Going back a little – “Karma” is a great song, and it also has a great video.

NFJ: The video is nuts! And the song is amazing. Looking back – we had a blast creating it, it was an amazing time.  We wrote it in 1999, but didn’t release it ‘til 2002. With “Karma” we changed everything. No Australian hip-hop act then had actually a proper radio–play unless they had something catchy and female on the hook. It was all repetitive.... But then we came. As for the video - we met this genius kid named Michael Gracey. His company was named Babyfoot. It was Michael and a couple of dudes, 3D animation specialists. We used to hang with Michael – or MG – all the time. He used to come to the shows and just dance like crazy in the front row. We played him “Karma”, he loved it, he wanted to do a video for it. I talked to him about my idea for the video – this puppet show with a storyline illustrating the concept of karma. I remember we were talking about it on the phone in front of the record store Peril was working in at the time, at Central Station. “I will be the storyteller, Peril and Kem could play out the scenarios. But I’m not sure how we can do it. But I can see it”. Michael called me later that day: “It’s gonna be a hand puppet show, like You’ve said – but all the backdrop will be a blend between 3D animations and real drawings, and the heads of the puppets will be 3D animated. “What are You talking about?!” – I shouted. I couldn’t imagine it. I haven’t really seen 3D animation yet. “Finding Nemo”, all this popular 3D films – we didn’t see it. Michael explained: “We’ll have the faces that can move and talk, so we have to film You in Sydney” – where he was living at the time – “and track Your face and mouth…” It was unbelievable. “Fuck yeah, I’m down, that sounds crazy!” We took some pictures of Kem and Peril and got the artists Adam and Thomas to redraw them. It was crazy, watching all this stuff come to fruition. This video was game-changing, and it became a hit. 

The only fuck-up was this: we were on the world deal for distribution, which was a big mistake.  We should have signed a territory by territory deal. A lot of territories wanted to release our album, but the company who had the distribution deal for Australia had first dibs for the international distribution. And they weren’t sure if it would blow up overseas, so they didn’t release it. It was very frustrating, knowing there was a release possible in Poland, Germany, Canada, everywhere – but they wouldn’t do it. That was the biggest, hardest lesson we learned.

But still, our music changed Australia’s climate, Aussie hip-hop started to receive bigger play, we started to appear in Triple J, Hot 100… We won ARIA Award for “best independent release”, because there was no urban category then – we beat rock bands! There was a lot to overcome. To think that two tracksuit and gold-chain wearing Italians and an African-Australian mixed kid with dreads and a beard made a stand, made this change and were able to play venues no other Aussie hip-hop act were ever able to play, because they couldn’t get the support on the kind of bands that could fill these big rooms… We started headlining and doing pretty decent tours. We had to convince the owners of these venues to let hip-hop into their buildings. 

I don’t want to sound like a pompous prick, but none of my friends, who are big now, had to do that shit. I say to my mates, whom I help now “Yeah, I played at that venue. You should have seen the room manager at this venue, he fuckin’ hated us, we had to convince him to like us and our music”. There wasn’t a lot of money, we were coming up, unfortunately it wasn’t until we stopped that money started happening. 

MW: After the disbandment of 1200 Techniques, You started Your solo career right away?

NFJ: It’s a tricky one. We disbanded due to lack of communication. I wasn’t a good communicator, I would stick to writing songs and communicate like that. Peril was working hard on creating the label, he had this vision called Street Elite, working with local talented artists. For me it was frustrating, because I wasn’t getting any beats and the 1200 Techniques thing was basically stopped. I needed to keep writing. I didn’t really think about repercussions of that, but people started giving me beats on tour, and I was like: “If I hear something good, I’ll start writing”! I ended up writing about 7 songs on different beats. I called guys, I thought maybe I should help them, and maybe we can produce my solo record, then next 1200 record. I thought it wasn’t a big deal, I wasn’t trying to blow up, I just needed to get something out. Show some love to the beatmakers. Get some amateur rappers from Byron Bay, or Sydney, or different places on the tracks – that was my vision. But it became quite complicated. I traveled a lot, met different people. At the Big Day Out Festival, I met Terence Yoshiaki, a producer of a couple of Black Eyed Peas records (Like "Let's Get it Started") he invited me to L.A. We’re still good friends to this day. While traveling, I met DBridge, one of the greatest drum’n’bass producers, hung out and made a track with Roots Manuva, caught up with Heath Ledger in L.A. also met with Yoshiaki. and he produced this amazing beat, which became the song “Universal King”. All this stuff came about, and I realized - I got a record. Meanwhile, the situations with 1200 became more complicated. I released my record and then I had a personal crisis. Non-music related. Some bad things started falling down. A lot of personal problems… Every time I worked out to do something with the guys, the idea of not doing anything with anyone else than 1200 Techniques became difficult. I was too creatively selfish. It wasn’t any animosity, we didn’t hat each other. The lack of communication caused this “disbandment”, each of us just went their own way. I had to go live in London for a brief period, and even when I got back to Australia, I couldn’t concentrate on music. 

From the music standpoint, it’s all about releasing the new record and making this magic happen, but form the personal point – music is just a “thing You do”. It’s Your real life You got to think about. If everything’s working and You can fit the music in – that’s great. But when other things get in the way, You have to decide – to be selfish, completely obsessed musician or a family man. That’s life in general. You gotta choose. If You’re not happy outside music, You won’t be happy within it. If the music isn’t working, You feel like You’re failing. Take music very carefully and treat it very respectfully, because it’s not an easy way to success. In 1200 Techniques, even though we had different visions, everything happened so organically and beautifully, I believed that’s just how it works. Not realizing, that we’re on a beautiful wave, moment, that normally wouldn’t have happened. We’ve done a little deals and independent groundwork – You can do that when You’re 17 to 23, when You don’t have kids, job or mortgage, You can put hours into it, nothing really matters. But when other stuff comes in – You have to educate yourself in new reality. 

I think this creative period was meant to be – we were meant to create awesome records, it’s just hard to let this period go sometimes. I was a part of the movement of the change. History can write that it was other groups like Hilltop Hoods that did it. But they know what’s up, they my boys. They remember our shout-outs. We can only dream now of supporting them – they sell out arenas now, that’s crazy! But there was a time they were supporting us. I hope the history books of Australian music will not cancel us out, the group that bridged the overseas hip-hop with the local hip-hop. I felt there had to be a bridge, and 1200 Techniques was that bridge… Us, me and my strange – not Australian, not English, not American accent – our beats, cultural influences created a bridge strong enough to make people to listen, move to and hang out with us, to make people like Rodney P get on the track. I think being that bridge was our historical point. That’s what we were meant to be.

MW: Going back to You solo career…

NFJ: My solo career… just happened. It wasn’t planned out. My last album, after a couple of EP’s, is called “Black & White Noise”. I actually written it in 2009, but I got to release it in 2014. Recently, we did a new 1200 techniques EP, called “Time Has Come”. We have a hot track on it, called “Flow is Trouble”, featuring Ghostface Killah. It was kinda frustrating for us, because we had some problems with radio buying it, they wanted that new trap sound. It was a bit of a kick in the mouth, honestly. As I said, our “golden” period was then, continuing it now requires a lot of hard work, without any guarantee. It is difficult, we all have families now. As far as 1200 goes, it would be nice if we could do some pop-up shows or get some re-release of certain songs abroad, if there’s some love abroad…. But – the guys are pretty happy with their lives. Peril has a lot other music projects, plus he’s still busy with the graffiti art and running awesome hip-hop, funk, soul nights. I’ll probably continue my work with House of Beige.

MW: Your first solo album was 2006’s “Cause an Effect”, right?

NFJ: Yeah. It actually did pretty great. The shows were pretty good, but I came up being in 1200 Techniques and selling 1200 capacity rooms, so for me doing shows for like 400 seemed terrible, but it was actually awesome. My perspective was all out. If I could go back to myself then, I’d just keep going with this. I would say to myself “Keep going, do the next release and the next one. As long as N’fa’s project is kicking ass, You can do 1200 Techniques project”. 

MW: You toured extensively both in Australia, United States, but also Asia and Europe, right?

NFJ: Yeah. I was kinda underground. I was based in London with a project No Fixed Abode, which was basically “Cause an Effect” live, with some other stuff I’ve written. It was actually doing well on festivals like Camden Crawl, Breakthrough Festival… We started getting some love, but due to circumstances I had to leave London and deal with family stuff. 

MW: If You could compare the audiences – what are the difference between, for example, European and Asian audiences?

NFJ: Asian audience is very commercial-minded. There are true hiphopheads too, and they rather do small, but amazing parties once a month. But it’s a pretty small group. In Asia I was more just having fun and experiencing the culture, rocking with DJ’s, dropping some original songs, but most of the time flipping some hot tracks, like The Neptunes hit, find a break, make a loop and freestyle over it… Or freestyling, while my partner was beatboxing. That was the vibe in Asia. In Europe the audience understands hip-hop very well. The rapping, timing, rhythm – they appreciated it. Australian audience is really cool, but they get caught up with certain rules with Australian identity, like – what accent am I supposed to have vs. how do I speak? They want me to have more Aussie accent, but it isn’t how I talk. And then there are audiences elsewhere, where they want You to speak with American accent. But the States were actually really receptive. New York, L.A. – we were freestyling on street corners with kids on Lower East Side… They liked the accent, they liked the difference. I think in the venues the American audience was probably the most open… As far as the difference – I think it’s more about education in the music, in hip-hop culture. Australian people love what’s going on currently in hip-hop, and also the boom bap era. Anything too soulful, they don’t quite get it – as a mass. Individuals, smaller groups – yes, but not en masse. In the States, You can have some left-field, crazy experimental shit and people gonna love it. I love that in the audience. Me, personally – I love hearing music I haven’t heard before. 

MW: Do You have a message for Your listeners in Poland?

NFJ: Love music, love this music. I love sharing music. I’m all over here, but we’re all connected through this invisible, intrinsic form of music. It’s magical. Music is one of the few magical elements of the world. We all need to believe in and create this magic. Stay connected, stay open-minded, open hearted – You never know, Your favourite song may be yet to be written.